Asgar Dimension?

As I mentioned in some of the other threads, one of my initial plots when I was joining Kupopolis the first time around was to introduce a new dimension based on FF7. I held off on it because I wasn’t yet familiar with the Web of Worlds to introduce a new “player” into the mix, and because it would have set a bad precedent for any other newbs that wanted to join.

Now I’m interested in bringing it in to the Web in the wake of the White Cell conflict, after I’ve had some time to get back into the swing of things, writing for Kupop. This thread can be for planning related to it.

Some good news-- I managed to get my old laptop up and running and access my old notes related to Asgar, and indeed, most of my writing from Kuproper.

Some bad news-- as I’d feared, a lot of it is still corrupted from the transfer from my thumb drives to that laptop’s hard drive. It’s mostly in files over a certain size, but it does mean that I’ll have to reconstruct some of my notes fresh. This is not a bad thing, since I’ll want to update them to be more in line with more recent ideas. Like cannibalizing the bits from the FF7 Compilation BS that I decide I like, and discarding the stuff I don’t. (See: just about everything from Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children.)

It’ll take me another few days to get some of my notes ready to share here, but here’s a starter.

It’s ~150 years since the Lifestream Crisis. (the events of FF7)
Four major governments-- Junon (inc. Midgar), Corel, Wutai, Cosmo
Three major megacorps-- Shinra, AesirCorp, Zaibatsu

I am definitely cool with this, Jay! I think leading into it would be neat. Do you have ideas for stories and plots you wanted to do with it, yet?

Also, I know Byron had some ideas. BYRON, I’M SUMMONING YOU.

[quote=“Tex”]I am definitely cool with this, Jay! I think leading into it would be neat. Do you have ideas for stories and plots you wanted to do with it, yet?

Also, I know Byron had some ideas. BYRON, I’M SUMMONING YOU.[/quote]


Alright, so I love the idea. It’s a great game world, with a lot of play. I would also love to introduce a game world (Ivalice), though I haven’t paid my dues quite as much.

My thought is this: Possibly combining the two game settings into the same dimension. Asgar (FF7), and Ivalice (FFTactics/XII) could exist in the same system, though different planets. Perhaps neither has space travel, or only recently does, and have established diplomatic ties (or aggression). Both worlds are deeply tied into FF mythos so they have a lot in common with each other (and a couple other dimensions), and could fit well. As for a Dimension name, Zodiac came to mind for a Ivalice Dimension, but I’m not dead set on it.

I’ll also throw this out: in their respective canons, Ivalice had Cloud show up, so it’s a funny joke.

Usually, the dimension has one name, then individual worlds have other names – so Alter Dimension has Alter-Dragon and Alter-Mana (to use a mildly clumsy example). There’s no real rule here, though, so do what your heart says.

Good to know!

I know there is some concern on if/when to introduce new dimensions, whether that is post white cell but pre story start, later in the year, etc. So it’s something to be mindful of.

I’m not opposed to there being another world in the dimension where Asgar is located. I hadn’t settled on a name for the dimension yet anyway. I had considered that Asgar had minor space travel-- part of my initial “Asgar arrives in the Web” plot had involved Asgar having to put up a defense against the threat of a Surtran incursion, and the after-effects of the “Makou bomb” that gets set off to drive them back ends up activating the gate to Gate Dimension.

It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to scale back the level of spacefaring. It would primarily have been in the “inside” of the system, from Asgar to the sun, with space stations and satellites set up to detect Surtran activity closer to the sun, and larger installations and ships closer to Asgar itself to defend the planet. That whole plan was never quite set in stone, but some space travel would obviously be necessary for Asgar and Ivalice to meet one another. (Cloud’s appearance on Ivalice could be explained as some “quirk of the Lifestream” or other.)

As for when “Zodiac” (good placeholder name until we settle on a name for the dimension) joins the Web, I’d prefer not pre-story. I kinda need to get back in the swing of writing for Kupop again and figure out what happened to my other characters/settings before I get distracted with Asgar. As for how Ivalice and Asgar get along, I’m not too familiar with Ivalice. (Never played Tactics or 12.)

Of the four major powers on Asgar, Junon is the most hawkish, and has had a few wars with Corel in the intervening century and a half between Meteorfall and the present day. Corel’s pretty salty, but has a lot of power because of their industrial base and their wealth of natural resources. Wutai is rising as they’ve developed quite an economical base of their own, refining on existing technology and securing patents for it. Cosmo Territories have the least amount of economic clout, and have only really avoided being absorbed into one of the other three because they have few resources to exploit that aren’t extremely difficult to extract. (Due to hostile fauna, Gi Tribe presence, etc.)

Not that it has to be tied to any sort of game-based canon, but can someone explain to me the relationship between FFT and FF12? I get that they are both Ivalice (or are supposed to be), but is one, say, hundreds of years in the future or past from the other?

I ask because I sorta remember at the time that FF12-world was going to be called “Ivalice”, but also that it was more of a re-imaginging of the FFT-world.

And, weren’t some of the handheld sequels to FFT also in a world called Ivalice? And (one more!), didn’t the recent re-translation of FFT (newly rechristened the War of the Lions?) thoroughly rewrite the place and character names?

Basically, Ivalice began as the name given to the world in FFT. Back then it was awesome! Then FFT Advance came out, and its world was also called Ivalice, but it was much sillier. I mean, a decent game that improved on a couple of FFT’s mechanics (like, for instance, they removed that bit where you could sometimes miss with a healing spell [WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!]), but overall a pretty silly, ridiculous addition to the FF name. FF12 decided to commit fully to this silliness, however, and tack that silliness onto a plot that’s a very thinly disguised retelling of Star Wars.

It was only after the silliness of FF12 was out in the open market that Square said: "Hey, we’ve made a lot of money rehashing some of our older FF titles for handheld consoles. Why don’t we rehash FF Tactics, and inject into it some of the silliness that made FFT Advance and FF12 so ridiculous?

Thus a legend was born.

There is some discrepancies and argument over which came first, FFT or FFXII (though I feel the arguments for a FFT----FFXII timeline are much more compelling). It makes sense to set a Kupopolis Ivalice post FFXII, whether this is before FFT’s timeline or after, if we were wanting to stick to some semblance of canon. The level of technology is more consistent with the Web, and more races/fleshed out world setting to play with.

Jay, I don’t see any reason to scale back the space travel for Asgar. Ivalice could have it a little as well (their airships are far more advanced than anything Earth has, but they’re too busy bickering over one planet to do space travel really). Perhaps the planets are in opposing rotations and so it has been impractical to visit? Very open to suggestions, but I certainly don’t want to alter what you have going.

As for timing of when to introduce things, it does sound like bringing them in later on in the year (or next) would work best from a writing perspective. That would give me time to truly flesh out Ivalice, brainstorm plots, etc. Not too mention give us plenty of time to enjoy and explore Kupop on a micro scale before things expand back out.

My understanding is it goes like this:

FF12 happens at the earliest point. It has the crazy multiple races; I think FFTA and FFTA2 are in this time frame, but given that they’re tonally different (a lot sillier, whereas FF12 is basically Star Wars: Final Fantasy edition in tone), I don’t think they’ve been cited as occurring anywhere specifically.

FFT happens much, much later. FF12 is its ancient past; the airships and crap found in FFT are from the FF12 era. About 2 thousand years, if memory serves. I was pretty deep in that fandom for awhile; by FFT’s time, there’s no one but humans left. The PSP translation of FFT is straight-up better than the PSX one, and keeps a lot of the historical references intact (and way less transliteration of Japanese names for an exceedingly European setting, which felt weird to me). That said, it also changed tons of the names; I think it also had easter egg characters from FF12 and FFTA2 in there, but that makes about as much sense as FF7 characters showing up.

I think Byron said he wants to set Zodiac between FF12 and FFT.

Random note…

I’ve had an idea for a story concept in my head for a while now. And it recently occurred to me that it would work in the Asgar setting of Kupopolis, once I/we pull the trigger on it.

I initially had the idea for an original, unique setting, but I’ve just had some writer’s block for a while in figuring out an actual story, besides the basic concept. And as I thought some more on it, I realized I can adapt it somewhat to fit in Asgar.

I don’t really want to say any more about it, lest I spoil it, but I think it’ll work. A few tweaks here and there, but yes.

I’ve been working on a short post about a Corp that is manufacturing space portals to speed up travel to fringe space colonies. I think we established that dimensions were solar systems that were still in the same universe? It could be something to work as a catalyst for introducing them?

Yeah, that was my understanding about the “dimensions” thing. The name’s a holdover from when the primary means of traveling from world to world was via the portals.

Asgar’s portals have just not been found yet. There’s one in Gate, close enough to the main planet for Bomber Harris’ craft to crash-land there, but it’s not fully active.

Gotta remember to keep digging out my old notes about Asgar so’s I can establish some stuff about other planets in the system. (Not using the solar system model shown in Sephiroth’s Supernova attack, for obvious reasons.)

Hey cool! Glad to hear it, Jay.

And yeah, correct: I always figured the “Web” is basically a galaxy with the links of portals, some on planet and some far out in space.

So, as discussed in the Maps thread, there are some ideas about what will trigger Asgar’s entry into the Web of Worlds.

Some of it depends on the timeline of events as it stands. White Cell is, what, a few years at least after COH, right? I figure Asgar’s arrival would be after White Cell, adding some further instability to the destabilized Web.

As some background, there are spaceborne threats in Asgar, in the form of the Surtrans, “sun-devils” or “sun-demons” that plague space and come out in solar flares. Makou Energy is the most effective way to disperse their forms (they’re largely energy-based). Bomber Harris was caught up in a skirmish with them that saw his ship get damaged and the Makou Cell on his ship ruptured. This caused one of the dimensional gates to briefly activate and pull his ship through, where it eventually crashed on Gate III in the Keldark Valley.

Another, larger battle with Surtrans would lead to Asgarian forces detonating a “Makou Bomb” to disperse them, which would activate the gate, making it accessible on a more consistent basis.

As the map I made shows, there are four main nations on Asgar’s world.

  • The Republic of Junon, which controls the Norlande and Esterlande continents, and is home to the Neo Shinra Corporation.
  • The Republic of Corel, which controls the northern half of the Vasterlande continent and is home to Aesir Corporation.
  • The Kingdom of Wutai, which obviously controls the Wutai Continent, and is home to the Akaiyama Zaibatsu.
  • The Cosmo Territories, which controls the southern half of the Vasterlande continent, and has a strong anti-corporate bias.

I’m thinking I may adjust a few things between now and whenever the Asgar plot kicks off, and throw the Mideel Islands into the Cosmo Territories as well.

White Cell is actually quite a few years after CoH, and Reborn is somewhat later.

CoH happens around the “end of Proper” (which makes it a slight retcon, but we weren’t super-active during this time anyway.)

White Cell happens a few years after that – 52 WR is the date given for the start, and it presumably lasts a few years, given how it’s a vast, wide-ranging conflict.

I think we settled on 55 WR for Reborn, but I’m having a hard time finding the record for that.

(If this puts in perspective: Reborn-era Fara, if she shows up, is like 30-something, and has probably Seen Some Shit. Part of the reason CoH exists is because I wanted the ‘spunky young heroine’ version of the character.)

I guess the big question re: Asgard’s discovery is…do you want it to be a thing that happened already by the time we’re in Reborn, or do you want its discovery to be A Thing in Reborn?

Reborn Fara would be like 30.

55 WR is Reborn! I remember this pretty clearly; we hammered it out and it was used to make some ages of characters.

Okay! Maybe Asgar is Already A Thing by the time of Reborn, then. That seems like quite a long stretch for poor Bomber Harris to be locked up in Valleyville all that time.

So, Reborn is 55 WR, and COH is a decade or so before then.

I’d probably aim for Asgar’s arrival to happen maybe by the time of 50 WR. Maybe only the Gate dimensional portal is active, making it difficult for the White Cell conflict to reach Asgar space?

EDIT: I’ll probably have Asgar’s calendar settling on a “Calamity Era.” This smooths out the FF7 timeline for my purposes, with the ‘CE’ turnover happening when Jenova (the Calamity from the Skies) landed at Katastrofgrop. This places the events of FF7 in 2007 CE, and Asgar’s arrival in the Web in roughly 2200 CE.

Makes sense! 52 WR could work if you got some flexibility? That opens, uh, Asgar joining the Web while it’s on fire.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. White Cell conflict in full force, and Asgar’s nations have to start building up more space forces to be able to defend their planet against possible invaders/occupiers. And maintaining a stance of neutrality in the conflict. “We just got here, this is your fight, not ours.” Especially as the Three Corps all just basically decide, “Sell to both sides and offer our resources to help rebuild when the fighting stops.”